Revolutionising Accounting: The Profit First Approach with Duncan Lloyd
In this episode, Tim sits down with Duncan Lloyd, Co-Founder of Profit First Professionals UK & Ireland and founder of Profit Genie Group, to talk about his powerful transition from traditional accountancy to high-value, client-focused advisory.
Duncan shares his journey from charging just £59 a month to confidently offering £750+ packages by embedding the Profit First methodology into his firm. We explore how he went from compliance-heavy services to becoming a true financial coach for his clients, with a strong emphasis on cash flow, profitability, and long-term sustainability.
We dive into how Profit First not only transformed Duncan’s business model but also helped him build deeper, more rewarding client relationships. He also unpacks the benefits of working in a niche, the game-changing impact of a subscription based model, and how community and collaboration within the Profit First Professionals network have helped him thrive.
Whether you're an accountant, bookkeeper, or business coach - if you're looking to move away from compliance and into strategic, advisory-led services, this is a must-listen.
Key Takeaways:
- Profit First helped Duncan shift from traditional compliance to proactive financial coaching.
- Cash flow and profit management are essential to building sustainable client businesses.
- Niche specialisation allowed Duncan to tailor services and deliver higher value.
- Pricing jumped from £59 to £750/month by focusing on transformation and accountability.
- The Profit First Professionals community fosters support, collaboration, and growth.
- A subscription-based model makes pricing clear and enhances client experience.
Transcript
Foreign.
Speaker A:Welcome to Profit first beyond the Book, a podcast that takes you beyond the book with Profit first brought to you by Tim Duncan and the rest of the Profit first professionals, UK and Ireland.
Speaker B:Foreign.
Speaker A:Is all about my friend, my business partner, Duncan Lloyd.
Speaker A:So welcome along, Duncan.
Speaker B:Thanks for having me, Tim.
Speaker A:You're welcome.
Speaker A:So look, Duncan, you're by your own admission, and I know you, so I see this, you're not comfortable talking about yourself and your own business.
Speaker A:If we're being totally honest, being an introvert character.
Speaker A:And you know what, there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker A:It's great to be business partners with you.
Speaker A:You're a very modest guy, but I'm going to be asking you questions so I can tease out some of the information that I know about you and your business and the success that you're having, partly from Profit first and partly from other aspects of learning that you've, you've gone through over a period of time.
Speaker A:So, so I'm going to ask you some questions because I want our audience to learn more about you and they're going to on this podcast.
Speaker A:So I know it makes you uncomfortable, but let's do it anyway.
Speaker A:So, so thank you.
Speaker A:So let's start at the beginning.
Speaker A:So let's, let's talk about you and your business before you joins Profit First Professionals.
Speaker A:You know, I don't mind how far back you want to go with this.
Speaker A:Just, just tell us in your own words, you know what, how you got.
Speaker A:Got to where you got to that made you make the decision to join.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Well, I'll give you a very quick potted history.
Speaker B: I'm qualified, gosh,: Speaker B: n about, I think it was about: Speaker B:So, and then I, I had a number of education clients, companies engaged in delivering apprenticeships because I previously been a finance director in a business engaged in that industry.
Speaker B:And so I was able to sort of niche down fairly quickly into that.
Speaker B:And then one of the, one of, one of my customers recommended Profit first to me and I, you know, I love, I love a business book.
Speaker B:I'm a bit of a sucker for a business book.
Speaker B:And truth be told, most of them are quite forgettable.
Speaker B:You know, you get one or two things out of them, but actually they don't really move the needle.
Speaker B:But this one, this one was different, actually.
Speaker B:We'd be training for a couple of years.
Speaker B:I had A couple of team members and I was pretty happy with what we were doing.
Speaker B:We always set out to help our clients make more money.
Speaker B:We always wanted to be something a bit different.
Speaker B:And I read the book and I realized I'd, I've been missing the mark, actually.
Speaker B:It was a really humbling moment when you have that moment of realization and I thought, well, my customers need this.
Speaker B:I can see that.
Speaker B:I could visualize guys that I worked with really benefiting from the methodology.
Speaker B:Really highly entrepreneurial people, clever people, but not people who particularly understand accounts.
Speaker B:Why should they?
Speaker B:They're engaged in building their businesses.
Speaker B:So I applied, met with Ron, got certified and I've made it front and center of our firm ever since.
Speaker B:Really.
Speaker B:I mean, it's, it's, it's at the heart of what we do.
Speaker B:It's not everything that we do, but it's really fundamental to, to how we, how we serve our customers.
Speaker B:How does that sound for a quick potted history?
Speaker A:That sounds really good.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I remember I'd forgotten a bit about the education and training expertise you had actually in the background.
Speaker A:I'd forgotten about that.
Speaker A:So thanks for reminding me.
Speaker A:And so Profit first obviously struck a chord.
Speaker A:But do like it.
Speaker A:Anyone who joins Profit first professionals, they all say they read the book and it's like a light bulb moment.
Speaker A:Something just goes off in their head.
Speaker A:But it can see the advantage of not only doing it in their own business, but for accountants and bookkeepers and coaches, they can actually see the benefit of serving their clients in this way.
Speaker A:So you've mentioned that you felt you had to help your clients.
Speaker A:So how did that start?
Speaker A:Because obviously we all start somewhere and when we first do it, nothing's perfect, but we follow a sort of pathway that takes us to work out what works, work out what doesn't work.
Speaker A:How did it start off with you working with clients with proper verse after you first certified?
Speaker B:I think by focusing on profits and cash, on having cash to distribute a profit.
Speaker B:I mean, how many times have we as bookkeepers, accountants.
Speaker B:Well, the customer made, given their accounts, it says they've made 200 grand and they say, great, where is it?
Speaker B:This was a solution to that.
Speaker B:We're going to hardwire cash management into your business so that when we get to the year end it, there's a distribution there, there's a very, very real practical result of your, of your hard work.
Speaker B:So, so that was our, our early win and to be honest, we've added quite a few more bits, bits and pieces to how we support our customers.
Speaker B:But that remains like Principle 1, 2 and 3.
Speaker B:As long as we're making sure they've always got money to pay their corp sacks and their vat, which is, you know, really straightforward but actually really impactful for customers.
Speaker B:But having cash in our profit account, having, having an accountant that talks profitability to them and you know, we put ourselves in their shoes.
Speaker B:We're always trying to see, well, how can we help them.
Speaker B:It forces us to be more helpful to them, it forces us to add more value to them.
Speaker B:And in doing so, you know, we've seen, we've seen our fees rise.
Speaker B:When we started, I think we were, our entry level price was 59 pounds a month.
Speaker B:That kind of shows you what we were pitching at.
Speaker B:Yeah, our entry level price is 750.
Speaker B:£750.
Speaker A:£750Amonth.
Speaker B:£750Amonth.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:We're not after every customer.
Speaker B:We want the ones that are prepared to invest in financial coaching because they want to get, they want to get an outcome, we can help them achieve that.
Speaker A:So since you joined Profit First Professionals, I'm probably putting words into my slightly here because I know there's other things other than Profit Professional first, but since you joined Profit First Professionals, you've gone from charging your clients £59amonth to £750amonth.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And we're, we're clarifying some of that reasoning later on when we talk about a couple of other things that you've done outside of Profit first because we have to be transparent about how that's come about.
Speaker A:But when you wrap a lot of things together and use these things is one big package, it can make a big difference to a business, can't it?
Speaker A:Can I just ask you, so, so before you joined Profit first, would you say you were mainly a compliance led business if you were charging those sort of fees?
Speaker B:I wouldn't say we were compliant.
Speaker B:We were doing management accounts, we were doing some, some elements of forecasting.
Speaker B:We just hadn't particularly packaged it very effectively.
Speaker B:So it's really hard to explain to us prospects what you can do to help them.
Speaker B:That's one of the things that Profit first did for us became, it became a much clearer way of being able to say to people, this is the outcome we can get you.
Speaker B:How does that sound?
Speaker B:It sounds great.
Speaker B:Okay, let's talk about it.
Speaker B:Whereas if you talk about, yeah, I'll do your account, so I'll help, I'll make sure you don't get any penalties.
Speaker B:And I'll give you a set of management accounts.
Speaker B:I might even do a forecast to you.
Speaker B:That's great.
Speaker B:If it doesn't particularly make you look different from hundreds of other accountants.
Speaker A:Yeah, totally agree, totally agree.
Speaker A:And at the end of the day, we need to stand out.
Speaker A:There's a lot of competition out there, isn't there, for accountants of bookkeepers right now in particular?
Speaker B:You definitely have, you definitely got to be different.
Speaker B:You definitely got to stand out.
Speaker B:And this, this is an ongoing debate you're noticing in our community about niching.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:You know, I'm a big fan of it because we have to be able to find where our prospects congregate.
Speaker B:And the only way of doing that is by industry niche, in my humble opinion.
Speaker B:I know there's a live debate, but people take different views on it.
Speaker B:But I think if you're really going to help people, you have to talk their language, you have to use their TLAs, their three letter acronyms.
Speaker B:They have to know that you know their problems and you can help solve their problems.
Speaker A:So let's talk about your niches that you've moved into and then we'll come back to.
Speaker A:I've got another question for you that I'll come back to.
Speaker A:But as you've mentioned, niches, let's go into that first.
Speaker A:So, so you've got two niches, two clear niches that you operate in.
Speaker A:Do you want to just elaborate on how they came about and what that means?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:We have a.
Speaker B:We have a fitness niche.
Speaker B:So typically micro gyms turning over the biggest one product owns over £2 million.
Speaker B:They've got three sites and we have an E commerce niche.
Speaker B:So this is typically Amazon Shopify sellers.
Speaker B:They may, there may be a bricks and mortar store with a, with a website.
Speaker B:So if it's got a website, they've got, they've got a whole load of metrics and additional reporting requirements that we can help, we can wrap our arms around and really help them report on.
Speaker B:So with the fitness niche we took on this client engaged in, they were engaged in helping fitness companies market.
Speaker B:We became their accountant doing profit first then.
Speaker B:And they said, we want you to offer your services to all of our customers.
Speaker B:We said, great, okay, let's do it.
Speaker B:So we created Fitness Profit Genie.
Speaker B:So Profit Genie is our brand name.
Speaker B:Then we have Fitness Profit Genie underneath it and Econ Profit Genie.
Speaker B:And so they're both offerings fundamentally the same service, but they're tailored slightly for those particular markets.
Speaker B:So we, as I mentioned earlier, we just talk slightly different language.
Speaker B:We have different scorecards, different assets, different KPIs that we are.
Speaker B:I use the word rinse and repeat, it's a bit more than that.
Speaker B:But because we have a very, very much streamlined approach for those particular businesses, we know what they need.
Speaker B:We haven't got a reinvent in the wheel.
Speaker B:When we take on a new one, we can get traction very quickly because we know what they need because we've got a population of customers in that sector.
Speaker B:Also means of course can do benchmarking.
Speaker B:So we can say to our fitness customers, you're spending x percent on, on, on payroll as a proportion of revenue.
Speaker B:That's 1% more or less than others in this group.
Speaker B:Therefore there is a, a gap, there's a savings to be made.
Speaker B:Now we can give them really good industry insight, really high value advice that helps keep them in as a customer because they're not just getting a report, they're not just getting a forecast, they're getting real actual insight that helps them make money, put cash in the bank.
Speaker A:It's really, I love it when you talk about this.
Speaker A:I love the thought of being able to provide industry insights and being able to benchmark business against each other.
Speaker A:A similar size in, in the same industry so they can understand whether they're above or below what you're seeing as the average and they can reflect on that and make some necessary tweaks and you know, whatever that might be, it might be increasing pricing, it might be looking at how productive their team are.
Speaker A:All these kind of things that you can dig deeper into.
Speaker A:This leads me into.
Speaker A:We're going to talk about this again a bit more.
Speaker A:But the sort of information you're providing, I would call that high level advisory because you're giving them specific knowledge about what's happening in their industry and you're relating it to what's happening in their particular business.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so personally I would call that high level advisory is that, I know advisory is the buzz term and everybody talks about moving a compliance advisory.
Speaker A:It's kind of blah, blah, blah noise, isn't it?
Speaker B:Sometimes.
Speaker A:But actually what you're delivering there is what I would call that.
Speaker A:So is that what you would call it?
Speaker A:How would you sort of term, term that you're doing for your clients now?
Speaker B:Well, I guess, I guess I probably would but we, we wouldn't, we don't use the word advisory but only because customers don't, you know, they, they don't go looking for advisory.
Speaker B:That's meaningless to them.
Speaker B:So, so we, we've, we've created what we call the Destiny program.
Speaker B:Bit cheesy, I know.
Speaker B:It could be called anything, really.
Speaker B:But the point is it's a product.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So when they find out about us, when they look at our brochures, when they look at our website, they're not having to work out what, what we do.
Speaker B:They have to, to see, well, advisory compliance, what do I need?
Speaker B:They just see, here's a program, do I want, do I want it or not?
Speaker B:And then in our program we have various modules so they can see by looking at our website what to expect within 12 months.
Speaker B:So we have, we have a session, we might do five year planning, we'll do some income tax planning, we'll do some KPI Deep dive, we'll do the Accountability engine, where we look at their senior management team and who's doing what.
Speaker B:How do we get that team to be more dynamic and productive?
Speaker B:We're looking at a whole range of things so they can see very clearly if they tick the box and click accept, they're not just getting management accounts, they're on a journey with us.
Speaker B:We're in the business of transformations.
Speaker B:One of the reasons I like working with fitness entrepreneurs is because they're in exactly the same industry.
Speaker B:People go to their gyms, they want an outcome, they're not going to get that outcome quickly, they're going to get it by turning up, doing the work, listen to what they're told, taking the advice and being consistent.
Speaker B:And in doing so, they get a transformation over time.
Speaker B:You know, three, six, 12 months, exactly the same for our customers.
Speaker B:We use that analogy all the time.
Speaker B:You come to us, I've not got a magic wand, but I'm going to work with you.
Speaker B:Over time, I'm going to hold you accountable.
Speaker B:And over time we're going to achieve multiple transformations and an outcome is going to be X.
Speaker B:That's what we're aiming for.
Speaker B:It's going to be buying that house or paying off the mortgage or taking Fridays off or whatever it is that's important to them.
Speaker B:That's the transformation that we're, that we're in the business of.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker A:And that's the word, isn't it?
Speaker A:Transforming businesses, you know, transforming the owner's lives.
Speaker A:So you, you've, you've said about delivering to your clients.
Speaker A:So who does most of the delivery within the Profit Genie group?
Speaker B:So we have a small team in the uk, there are four of us in the uk, one of whom is a marketing exec.
Speaker B:So two people working, being client facing and then we Have a team in the Philippines.
Speaker B:We have seven people in the Philippines and they have been fantastic for our customers and for our business.
Speaker B:When we first went offshore, I wasn't sure how that was going to work.
Speaker B:I thought it would be just a bit of money.
Speaker B:But churning workouts for customers, the reality has been that actually they're so good, they're commercial and they're great communicators.
Speaker B:They're very ambitious.
Speaker B:They want to earn more money.
Speaker B:And the way to do that is to be more client facing.
Speaker B:So we've got them to be increasingly client facing.
Speaker B:When I spoke to you earlier about the modules that we deliver, they've been trained in how to deliver.
Speaker B:Most of them, they can do all of them.
Speaker B:There's a few that are.
Speaker B:That will require me or one of the other directors, but a good number, a good amount of it, they can deliver directly to the customers.
Speaker B:I've never had a customer so much raise an eyebrow about having an offshore member of the team.
Speaker B:In fact, I think customers like it.
Speaker B:I think they like it.
Speaker B:And what, what it's meant is we're able to, you know, we can charge more money, we're able to be profitable and we're able to pay our offshores team quite a lot more than they could get from somewhere else.
Speaker B:And in doing so, we get a lot of loyalty from them.
Speaker B:We've not had any of our offshore team leave us.
Speaker B:And once they're in, you know, they stay.
Speaker B:They're part of our, part of our family.
Speaker B:I'm being cheesy again, but I mean it now.
Speaker B:They're really, they're really important to us.
Speaker B:Just because they're in a different location makes no difference.
Speaker B:And it's enabled us to grow more quickly because we can have capacity.
Speaker B:We don't have to wait until we're bursting at the seams before we recruit somebody.
Speaker B:We just said we only ever want to be at 80% capacity and when we get there, we'll take on another person or maybe two people to make sure that there's always capacity to serve our customers.
Speaker A:Yeah, I knew.
Speaker A:I knew.
Speaker A:Am I right in saying you went out to visit them this year for the first time, you actually went to meet them all?
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:I went out last year to see them, which was.
Speaker B:Which was.
Speaker B:Which was terrific.
Speaker B:And I'll be going out again in March of next year, so.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's fantastic to meet them in person as well, you know.
Speaker A:Amazing.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And probably meant a lot to them, you know, I know you won't say that, but I would.
Speaker B:I don't know what to say behind my back, but.
Speaker A:I'm sure it's all positive stuff.
Speaker A:I know, I know the way you are with them, so I'm sure it's all positive stuff.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Okay, so fantastic.
Speaker A:So we've talked about niching.
Speaker A:We've talked about the specific niches that you operate in.
Speaker A:I was going to mention actually you said that the first client you took on in the gym ownership was a, was a.
Speaker A:Were into marketing.
Speaker A:Was.
Speaker A:Is that Luke and Ben we're talking about by the way?
Speaker B:Just, just.
Speaker B:Yes, yes.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, I, I gathered it was.
Speaker A:And Luke of course joined us last year at our event in September, didn't they?
Speaker A:And he gave a fantastic keynote speech on sales and, and how to, how to create sales.
Speaker A:And I can remember this is.
Speaker A:Duncan won't share this but I will.
Speaker A:I can remember at some point during the speech there was a.
Speaker A:So, so the, the floor, all the seats were taken.
Speaker A:It was a, it was a really good event and it was full of accountants in the room and Luke said who's the best accountant in the room?
Speaker A:And Duncan was the first person with his hand up in the air and that's not because he was being big headed or something.
Speaker A:It's because he's got true belief in himself.
Speaker A:So I'm sorry if I, if I've embarrassed you by sharing that, but I always remember that and I thought it was really up that you were the ones put your hand up first whilst everyone else kind of looked around the room a bit sort of, should I put my hand up?
Speaker B:Shanti, Luke did a great job for us on a sales masterclass and none of us became accountants because we're good at sales.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But actually we're all in sales now and I've had to learn the hard way to have respect for the profession of selling.
Speaker B:You know, we have a duty to do it, to embrace it, to do it properly and to not be sniffy about it.
Speaker B:And to my, my name, I used to be, I used to be quite, quite sniffy about it.
Speaker B:But you know, you, you live and learn.
Speaker A:It's, it's.
Speaker A:As you know, I was an accountant originally as well.
Speaker A:Selling doesn't come natural to us.
Speaker A:We can be quite reserved as is putting ourselves out on social media.
Speaker A:I can actually remember recording the first video that I put out and I actually told everyone this is the first video I put out.
Speaker A:But I, but I'm putting myself outside my comfort zone to do it and somebody commented trying to be Nice saying.
Speaker A:Yeah, good effort.
Speaker A:But I could tell it's your first video, and I feel great confidence.
Speaker A:And that was a client of mine as well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Anyway, another story for another day.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But obviously you just get through that barrier the more you do things.
Speaker A:And I think learning how to talk to prospects, if they're the right fit for you, is an art that we all need to learn soon.
Speaker A:And Luke was great at our event last year.
Speaker A:So we've talked about your business, we've talked about niching.
Speaker A:Now, I know there's a specific way that's helped you with niching.
Speaker A:We had Ron Baker on our podcast recently, didn't we?
Speaker A:And Ron Baker talks.
Speaker A:Well, you should probably talk more about Ron than me, but I.
Speaker A:But I.
Speaker A:I love the way that he explained the subscription method as being.
Speaker A:Subscription being a business model rather than a pricing strategy.
Speaker A:So I'd love you to talk a little bit about Ron and.
Speaker A:And tell us a little bit about how you've, you know, adapted that into your business.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, I mean, Ron Baker, another.
Speaker B:Another legend, along with.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Mike Michalowitz in the.
Speaker A:In the.
Speaker B:In the accounting firmament.
Speaker B:So, yeah, he wrote this book called, called Time's up, which is fundamentally about the.
Speaker B:The move of the profession into subscription.
Speaker B:He thinks that's where it's headed.
Speaker B:I think he's.
Speaker B:I think he's.
Speaker B:He's right.
Speaker B:It's where it's headed.
Speaker B:Not many firms are doing it yet, so we.
Speaker B:We've dipped our toe in the water.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And the principle behind it is a few things.
Speaker B:One is that clients pay you a recurring fee for membership.
Speaker B:Ron will call them members.
Speaker B:I'm not quite brave enough to do that yet.
Speaker B:I still call them customers.
Speaker B:And you might say, well, I do that anyway.
Speaker B:I do that anyway.
Speaker B:They pay a monthly fee.
Speaker B:It's just slightly different with their subscription model.
Speaker B:You're paying for a package.
Speaker B:The gym is a good analogy.
Speaker B:Again, I'm a member of a gym.
Speaker B:If they invest in a new sauna or new cycling kit, they don't say to me, oh, by the way, your fee is going up because we've got this new.
Speaker B:So they just say that this is the package.
Speaker B:Aren't we great?
Speaker B:We'll see you next time.
Speaker B:They send out an email once a year saying, here's your price for next year.
Speaker B:These are all things we've been doing to invest in your membership.
Speaker B:It's a fundamentally different way of serving your community.
Speaker B:So rather than charging for the number of back returns and transactions and payroll numbers on people on payroll, all that adds friction.
Speaker B:I think that's an important step in how accountants increase their prices and show their value.
Speaker B:But it also means the price moves about a bit.
Speaker B:The customer doesn't get certainty.
Speaker B:As a lot of admin to the firm, we took the view.
Speaker B:Okay, so for our 750, that is bookkeeping and a monthly accountability call with the team, the zero account, a management report, and a few other few of the bits that go with the package, including payroll, for example, that's the price, 750.
Speaker B:Now if a customer came along and said, actually I want all that but I'm not registered or I don't want payroll, we'd say that's fine, 750, because that's our fee for the package.
Speaker B:It means that selling is much more easily done by the team because how many times does a customer come to you and say, how much is it?
Speaker B:And then you say, it depends, I'll get back to you.
Speaker B:Let's jump on a call.
Speaker B:Let's go through the subscription model, gets rid of all of that and says, here's the price for this package for this customer.
Speaker B:It also leads on to something called portfolio pricing, whereby if you have clients in groups of say 8, 8 or 10, you run the risk that one of them you lose money on because you've not dialed into exactly what their, their requirements are.
Speaker B:We're relaxed about that because we, because I don't think we lose money on any of our clients, actually, but because we are able to acquire more customers in one go and we're able to serve them in a, in a very small, specific way, because we are reusing our, our tried and tested methodology, we can be much more efficient and therefore we don't have to reprice for every single client, which just slows everything down and makes selling much harder.
Speaker B:It means when you got someone on a, on a sales call, you're having to work out what the price is, and then they might get sticker shock, as the Americans say.
Speaker B:They already know when, when they get on a call with us, what, what the investment level is.
Speaker B:You know, we're already 8 hours, 10 of the way through making this sale.
Speaker B:But by the time they get on the call because they've seen my videos, because they've consumed our content, because we've, we've sent them information because they know what the price is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I think it takes away that when you're on the core, that awkward moment when you know you have to deliver what the price is.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because they don't know Beforehand and you, and you can feel yourself, I'm going back in time, feeling myself tensing up, getting ready to announce what the, what the amount is and probably fluffing it up, let's be honest, because we've all been there.
Speaker A:It's all a learning process that we go, go through, isn't it?
Speaker A:So this gives real clarity to people before they get to that point which then sales just becomes easier because you've already filtered out whether the people are the right foot or not before they get to that point anyway, haven't you?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it becomes much more unemotional.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's always harder as the business owner to give the price.
Speaker B:It's much easier for member of your team to do it when they say here's the brochure and there's the price.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, but by providing that level of clarity, I mean Amazon do it perfectly, don't they?
Speaker B:Amazon prime, you pay your fee, they just deliver your stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah, but that's an example that Robbey uses in his book.
Speaker B:So we're trying to lean into that way of doing business, making it easier for customers.
Speaker B:This is, this is the outcome we're going to give you.
Speaker B:This is the transformations we're going to go through.
Speaker B:Here's the monthly fee.
Speaker A:I love it, I love it.
Speaker A:And I know it's made a massive difference to how you operate your business.
Speaker A:Just for clarity, this niching and a subscription model that you're using for the gym owners and of course E commerce niche as well, doesn't mean you won't necessarily work with other people outside of the niches, does it?
Speaker B:No, exactly.
Speaker B:I mean often we get, we get clients, leads coming to us and you know, we don't, we don't, don't turn them away.
Speaker B:They may even know that we have an E commerce niche that we have.
Speaker B: E commerce starting price is: Speaker B:And part of the reason for that is because it's a bit more complicated.
Speaker B:There's some extra software that we use to interrogate Shopify, we've got, we've got to pay for.
Speaker B:So it does have extra elements to it.
Speaker B:But, but the profit first element, the reporting element, the accountability element, they're exactly, they're exactly the same.
Speaker A:Yeah, I understand, I understand.
Speaker A:So of course then you've got consistency for your team as well and what they're doing for everybody.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:The team know that they don't say to me when a customer requests, they don't have to say, can I do this?
Speaker B:Is this Urgent.
Speaker B:Are they on the gold package or is.
Speaker B:No, they're just, they're just their customer with that package.
Speaker B:Let's serve them.
Speaker B:They're very clear what's outside and what's within the package.
Speaker A:Yeah, love that, love that.
Speaker A:And so with the, with the gym owners and I'm slightly transitioning now with the gym owners, you've ended up, through your relationship with Luke and Ben, you've ended up speaking at quite a few events, haven't you yourself?
Speaker A:Now that, that's not something that perhaps came natural to you originally, is it?
Speaker A:So, so what have you done to, you know, learn more about that?
Speaker B:Yeah, well, it's, it's not my natural habitat to be on a stage or, or even, or even doing, doing this, but actually I've done it quite a bit now.
Speaker B:I'm much more, I'm much more comfortable with it than, than I was.
Speaker B:In fact, it, it was, it was Ben at the Mark, the fitness marketing business that I mentioned earlier.
Speaker B:He said, now I really want you to serve my clients.
Speaker B:I think you need some training on presentations.
Speaker B:Go and talk to this guy.
Speaker B:And the guy he recommended was Rich McCann.
Speaker B:So luckily for me, Richard McCann, his business is based about 15 miles from where I live.
Speaker B:So I went on, on one of his courses, which was one of the hardest days work I've ever done.
Speaker B:There was just 12 of us in a room there for camera confidence and presentation training.
Speaker B:And I think within 10 minutes, you're on your feet talking in front of everybody, and he's analyzing you, and you don't even know it and he's analyzing you and then he feeds back.
Speaker B:And the guy was so.
Speaker B:It made such a big impact on how I present, how I tell stories, how I connect with an audience.
Speaker B:And luckily for me, when you get on stage as an accountant or a bookkeeper, people tend not to expect very much.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So if you can, if you can tell a joke, if you can tell a mildly entertaining story, you're already well ahead.
Speaker B:So he gave me some top tips.
Speaker B:In fact, I've been on two of his courses and I've asked my children or also my daughters are in their 20s.
Speaker B:They're also going to go on his courses.
Speaker B:I mean, universities don't really teach this stuff, but you need to know, you know, if you're gonna, if you're gonna run a business, if you're gonna, if you're gonna be senior, if you're gonna make an impact on people, if you're gonna emotionally connect with people, you have to be able to tell stories.
Speaker B:So yeah, working with Richard at the ICANN Academy has been one of the best investments I've made in myself.
Speaker A:Yeah, amazing, amazing.
Speaker A:And Richard was on our podcast at, went out recently as well, like Ron was.
Speaker A:So Richard and Ron obviously are going to be joining us at ProfitCon in September.
Speaker A:Should we, should we give a little information about that before we go?
Speaker A:I'm going to take us back and talk about profit first and Mike after.
Speaker A:So if we just talk about one and Richard, what, what can people expect?
Speaker B:Well, we, yeah, we booked out Charles McCarthy's hall in London on Monday 22nd September and so we've got Mike Michalowicz as one of our keynotes.
Speaker B:Delighted to have booked Ron Baker, his first time in the UK for five or six years.
Speaker B:Also booked Richard McCann and we've got the amazing Carl Reader also now obviously with Mike and with Rob Baker and with Richard McCann.
Speaker B:These are three guys where I personally put my money into their services because they're incredibly impactful because they're world class.
Speaker B:So to have the three of them on stage together as people that I've had the privilege of working with and like I said, I've volunteered my hard earned cash to use their services because they're so good and I want as many people as possible to benefit from those three.
Speaker B:And of course, the terrific Carl Reader.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's going to be our biggest, best conference yet and we're, I'm absolutely thrilled to see, see how it goes.
Speaker A:It's really exciting and actually it's, it's quite nerve wracking as well, if, if it's fair to say that from my perspective because we're going to be sharing a stage with these people and you know, who are we?
Speaker A:But then who are we?
Speaker A:We, we run Profit First Professionals, you know, in the UK and Ireland and, and I think we should talk a little bit about that and a little bit about Mike.
Speaker A:You know, Mike for the last, this would be the third year on the trot.
Speaker A:He's traveled to London for us, which has been amazing support for us and what we do.
Speaker A:But he might, we might not be, he might not be coming next year.
Speaker A:So I think we should highlight that.
Speaker B:That's a really good point.
Speaker B:You know, we, Mike's D is, is it's hard, it's hard to book him for the 22nd of September.
Speaker B:So, you know, we certainly can't guarantee that Mike will be in the UK every year.
Speaker B:So if, so if, yeah, if you're on the fence about it, I encourage you to get down and come and meet Mike.
Speaker B:Incredibly personable, humble, remarkable individual.
Speaker B:And if you make that investment in time and effort, then I'm confident that they, it will, it will pay dividends.
Speaker B:Literally.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, you know, we got Mike Malovich, Profit first, Ron Baker, Carl reader, Richard McCann.
Speaker A:I mean it's an amazing lineup.
Speaker A:I personally can't wait.
Speaker A:I can't wait to, to that first moment where we welcome everybody along.
Speaker A:Um, and yeah, hold the microphone in your hand and nerves start to jingle a little bit.
Speaker A:And anyone who's, who's seen me doing it before will see my hand shaking with the microphone in my hand.
Speaker A:I don't care.
Speaker A:Do you know what?
Speaker A:I don't care.
Speaker A:That happens.
Speaker A:That's me.
Speaker A:I'm not nervous until I do that.
Speaker A:As soon as I start talking, I get a little bit of a shake on.
Speaker A:But you know what?
Speaker A:I don't care.
Speaker A:Being yourself.
Speaker B:Well, do you know what we've got?
Speaker B:We've, we so far we sold 10 tickets to people coming, coming from America which I find quite mind blowing that people are traveling across the Atlantic.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because they want to see that lineup.
Speaker A:And all I've got to do is come along the M4.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker A:Excellent.
Speaker A:Okay, so look Duncan, this has been amazing.
Speaker A:Just, just one last thing.
Speaker A:You know, obviously you and me, it's been three and a quarter years now since we, we took over the license.
Speaker A:We co founded Profit First Professionals for the UK and Ireland together, didn't we?
Speaker A:Because we felt that it needed to be run by, by people in this country that understood Profit first but also understand the UK and Ireland industry, the tax rules and regulations etc, and I think we've put our own mark on, on Profit first in the uk.
Speaker A:So from your perspective, you know, any, anything you want to share about Profit First Professionals, you know, what's your future thoughts and things?
Speaker B:Well, I think we're building a really special community.
Speaker B:When you look at the, what the messages go on the WhatsApp group and the kind of content we talk about on our office hour calls and how people are really helping each other out.
Speaker B:So really sharing collaborative community.
Speaker B:We've now now got so many mastermind groups where like minded firms are starting to work together to go really, really deep and help each other out.
Speaker B:There's a lot.
Speaker B:There's a load of value.
Speaker B:There's, there's a lot.
Speaker B:I'm in one of those many mastermind groups myself and the things that I'm learning from the other firm ups who are remarkable individuals who start Companies written books, acquired companies into their groups.
Speaker B:They're serious entrepreneurs and it's a real honor to work with such talented, nice bunch of people.
Speaker B:This is, this, this is a group of people who want the best for you and, and I can help you get there.
Speaker B:And I think that's, that's not always easy to find, so I'm grateful for it.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love that, I love that.
Speaker A:I, I, I, it's been, it's a hell of an experience doing what we do and, and it's very enjoyable.
Speaker A:It doesn't feel like work, does it?
Speaker A:You know, you get up on the Monday, I get up on Monday and I have all the calls with the members throughout the day.
Speaker A:It's just, it's just fantastic.
Speaker A:It sets me up for the week and all the, all the information that gets shared, it naturally gives me content for marketing, so it makes my job so much easier.
Speaker A:So if anyone listening wants to find out more, the best place to go is to the website profitfirstuk.co.uk.
Speaker A:there's also a tab on there for Profitcon UK 25 that you can click on.
Speaker A:You'll see Duncan in our very professional video talking about the event and encouraging you to buy tickets.
Speaker A:Of course, you'll see information about the keynote speakers we've got and there'll be a link there to secure your seats.
Speaker A:Now, we're just ramping up the marketing or we have just ramped up the market and I should say a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker A:So the seats are selling quite fast.
Speaker A:So if you really want to come get your seats, secure your spot.
Speaker A:Now, you're not going to get this much value from any other accountancy event in the uk and that's a bold statement.
Speaker A:But I don't think anyone's put together this lineup that you've brought together for us, Duncan, so, you know, fantastic.
Speaker A:I'm really looking forward to it.
Speaker B:Likewise.
Speaker B:Likewise.
Speaker A:Right, well, thank you very much for joining me, mate.
Speaker A:It's a great, great honor to be a business partner and thank you.
Speaker A:So thanks for sharing all this today with our viewers.
Speaker B:Thanks, Tim.
Speaker A:Foreign thank you for joining us on our podcast today.
Speaker A:Profit first beyond the Book was brought to you by the Profit First Professionals UK and Ireland team.
Speaker A:If you'd like to find out more about Profit first or becoming a Profit first professional, head to our website, profit first uk.co.uk.
