Unlocking Financial Success: The Profit First Approach in Accounting
Tim Seymour talks with Roger Knecht of Universal Accounting about how the Profit First methodology transforms both accounting practices and their clients’ businesses. They explore why accountants and bookkeepers must prioritise profitability—not just for their clients, but within their own firms—to achieve lasting financial success.
Roger shares practical strategies for shifting from compliance work to advisory services, articulating value to clients, and building a profitable, sustainable business model. This episode is packed with insights for accounting professionals ready to elevate their services and help eradicate entrepreneurial poverty.
Takeaways:
- Profit First helps accounting professionals and their clients achieve sustainable profitability.
- Many accountants lack sales and marketing skills—critical for growing a practice.
- Universal Accounting trains accountants to create successful, profitable business models.
- Profit First Professionals teach clients to manage money and prioritise profit.
- Moving from compliance to advisory work increases value and profitability.
- Structured financial management benefits both accountants and their clients.
Transcript
Foreign welcome to Profit first beyond the Book, a podcast that takes you beyond the book with Profit first brought to you by Tim Duncan and the rest of the Profit First Professionals UK and Ireland team.
Speaker A:I am delighted to be joined today by Roger Connect of Universal Accounting.
Speaker A:Roger, thank you so much for joining me and welcome to the podcast.
Speaker B:Tim, it's an honor.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:It's a, it's an exciting time, so I'm excited to be here.
Speaker A:Thank you Roger.
Speaker A:And I appreciate the fact that you've got it rather early to record this with us, so an extra special thank you for that.
Speaker A:But also it's, it's important for us to share with everybody what a worldwide phenomena Profit first and being a profit first professional is.
Speaker A:So thank you for joining us from the States.
Speaker A:It's really appreciated.
Speaker A:Roger, just so people can get to know you, can you explain a little bit about yourself and a little bit about the Universal Accounting center, please?
Speaker B:Certainly, yeah, let me do both.
Speaker B:I'll do personal and professional.
Speaker B:So I am a father, a husband, now a grandfather.
Speaker B:So excited about that.
Speaker B:Very much a professional in the sense that I am the president of Universal Accounting center post secondary school for accounting professionals.
Speaker B:We work with individuals worldwide as they're working to build their business as it relates to accounting services.
Speaker B:We train the owner with a variety of programs that we offer as well as their staff to offer quality accounting services.
Speaker B:And so we work on what I refer to as building the premier accounting firm in the air in their area.
Speaker A:Absolutely fantastic.
Speaker A:And I'm also a grandfather and then he's just, my first grandson is just over a year old, so.
Speaker A:So it's very enjoyable and I'm sure you find it the same.
Speaker B:Very much so.
Speaker B:I'm on number four, so this is going to be fun.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:I've got a long way to catch up.
Speaker A:Well, all my sons have got a long way to catch up, I should say.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker A:So Universal Accounting center helps accountants and bookkeepers, am I right in saying that?
Speaker A:And where specifically do you do you help candidates and bookkeepers within the organization?
Speaker B:Primarily it's in the United States and Canada, but I do have clients around the world.
Speaker B:Basically we're working with individuals that are typically in the startup phase, generally as solopreneurs offering accounting services up through perhaps maybe a mid market accounting firm.
Speaker B:Generally speaking, we're helping individuals move up, through and over the $1 million market in revenue.
Speaker B:And as we're doing that, we're generally helping the accounting firm owner establish what their business model may look like.
Speaker B:The services they're going to offer.
Speaker B:And as they expand their staff, we're training their employees so that they can offer those quality services having the skill that they need to do so confidently.
Speaker B:So those are some of the things we emphasize.
Speaker B:The variety of courses that we have range from bookkeeping, accounting, United States tax law, but also QuickBooks, marketing, selling.
Speaker B:Just a variety of things that are essential to be an effective accounting professional, let's say.
Speaker A:It's really interesting, isn't it?
Speaker A:Because you know, traditionally I was an accountant before I sold my practice and we go through all the exams and we go through all the studying and we become a qualified accountant.
Speaker A:But no one teaches you how to run a business, do they, as an accountant or a bookkeeper.
Speaker A:So I think all those skills that you're sharing with us is fantastic to help them get set up in the best possible way.
Speaker B:You know, I appreciate you pointing that out because yes, as accounting professionals one of the things that we focus on is clearly the accounting skills, what we're going to theoretically be doing for the clients or employers that we have.
Speaker B:But what's typically lacking are two other key components in business marketing and sales.
Speaker B:The ability to go out and get clients.
Speaker B:There's a phrase that we use and it's simply that there is really nothing that happens until you have a sale.
Speaker B:And that's basically to illustrate the fact that you can be a phenomenal accounting professional, but if you don't have paying clients, who cares?
Speaker B:And then the second part of the business model that I think is typically overlooked by the accountant is then the production side.
Speaker B:We need to know how to do the work efficiently and profitably.
Speaker B:There might be a certain skill that we have to do the work, but we're looking at efficiency at this point, the standard operating procedures to ensure that we're providing a quality piece of work.
Speaker B:And so those two elements are generally overlooked as it relates to the schooling that we're receiving other than through here at Universal Accounting Center.
Speaker A:Yeah, couldn't agree more.
Speaker A:Couldn't agree more.
Speaker A:Sounds a fantastic opportunity for the accountants of bookkeepers to learn from your structure that you help them build.
Speaker A:And I love the fact that you're looking to help people go from startup all the way through to a million pound revenue potentially.
Speaker A:And I know as a profit first professional, you're not going to just structure them to sell, sell, sell and bring the money in.
Speaker A:You're going looking at their finances as well, I would imagine.
Speaker B:Oh, certainly, yeah.
Speaker B:One of the things that we try to do is help them understand the business model for having a successful accounting firm.
Speaker B:And so we're talking about pricing, various pricing methods.
Speaker B:What are those averages that they should be looking for to ensure that they're being profitable?
Speaker B:And oftentimes, I think for accounting professionals, they're great at doing the work, but they're just not clear on how to price and package their services so that it's compelling and interesting to the client.
Speaker B:And so what we're trying to do is help them realize, well, here are the features of what you're offering, here are the benefits that you're providing, producing for the client, but at the end of the day, what do they want?
Speaker B:And so we're trying to actually help the accounting professional more clearly articulate what are the services that they're providing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And from my perspective over here in the UK and Ireland, where we work with our Profit first professionals who then go and work with their clients, we ask our members to start asking the clients, you know, what is it they're looking to achieve from their business and how can we help you get there?
Speaker A:So is it the same?
Speaker A:Is that similar to what your members or clients would do within your organization?
Speaker B:Yes, it is very similar.
Speaker B:And it's because of my familiarity with Profit first over the years that I think we've adapted very well to incorporate some of the same terminologies.
Speaker B:The easiest way I'd like to describe it is the fact that in accounting, there are essentially three core services.
Speaker B:There's accounting and bookkeeping services, tax planning and preparation services, CFO and advisory services.
Speaker B:And what I think we're talking about now is really when we're starting as accounting professionals, to get into that more advisory role.
Speaker B:In the CFO perspective, there are things that we're doing that actually helps that client of ours, that business owner, run their business more effectively, much like an asset, kind of considering their exit strategy, for example.
Speaker B:And the way that Profit first plays into that is we're actually, as now, Profit First Professionals helping them really focus in on that one thing that matters most, the profitability of the business.
Speaker B:At the end of the day, we can work very, very hard, but if we don't have the profits to show for it, I think we're missing the mark.
Speaker B:Because clearly, as businesses, we have to be profitable in order to sustain the.
Speaker B:And so when you start to bring in that whole profit discussion, it really becomes, in my opinion, a lot more interesting.
Speaker B:In fact, I'll actually use the word sexy.
Speaker B:It's really something that draws the attention of the business owner to say, okay, it's not Just the accounting that we're talking about any longer.
Speaker B:It's not this commodity that I feel I have to actually pay for and receive.
Speaker B:It's not just the formal financials that I would expect.
Speaker B:It's something that is actually the bottom line.
Speaker B:What is it that I'm working for here?
Speaker B:And I'm trying to make a dollar and that's what I'm trying to focus on.
Speaker A:Yeah, fantastic.
Speaker A:I think you've really explained how well for anybody listening and I think that really shares the mindset of the Profit first strategies and being a Profit first professional, how different it is from perhaps how traditionally accountants and bookkeepers have been shown the way of how to build their businesses.
Speaker A:And I think creating that structure around profit and paying yourself, rewarding yourself enough money from a business is key to success.
Speaker A:I did a survey, Roger, recently for accountants, bookkeepers over here and 63% of the people that completed the survey said that they wanted to build a longer term sustainable business for themselves.
Speaker A:And this was accountants and bookkeepers.
Speaker A:So they're not immune to the struggles of all of what all business owners suffer from with.
Speaker A:With being short of cash, with we're stuck in that monthly cycle of the money coming in, money going out, and then where's the next bit of money coming in so that I can pay the staff or pay myself or pay the bills?
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And it's really interesting that accountants and bookkeepers need support with this, but I think if we can help them fix their business, for want of a better phrase, it might not be quite the nicest phrase to use, but if we can help them understand how they can build their business, create a structure where they can pay themselves more sustainably, be more profitable, then it's a lot easier for them to be able to offer higher level and higher value impactful advice to their clients because they're being successful themselves.
Speaker A:So that positivity generates from within and outwards to their clients.
Speaker A:I feel.
Speaker B:Well, I love how you're describing that because Tim, I couldn't agree more.
Speaker B:One of the things that I think is very important here is the, let's say, the mission of Profit First Professionals.
Speaker B:As you know, Mike and Ron really harp on the idea of the role is to take and eradicate entrepreneurial poverty.
Speaker B:Well, that poverty does exist within the accounting profession.
Speaker B:Too often accounting professionals struggle to get paid what they're worth.
Speaker B:And one of the things that I think it's very important is as you move from that solopreneur phase into that level of growing your business, I refer to that as becoming an accountantpreneur, it's seriously taking on upon yourself that entrepreneur spirit that you should have and embracing it with that accountant role that you're playing.
Speaker B:If you can merge the accountant with the entrepreneur and become that accountrepreneur, I think you seriously start running an accounting business.
Speaker B:And it does take a mindset that you need to really kind of think through, okay, what am I doing here?
Speaker B:And that's where this equation that Mike so well put together in profit, first of revenue minus profit equals expenses, starts to really resonate not with our clients, but with our own business.
Speaker B:And so we're able to actually apply this in a way that allows us to now have profitable accounting firms.
Speaker B:This is powerful because we're now actually kind of applying these principles in our own company.
Speaker B:Now you take that confidence of applying this in your own business and you bring it to your clients with an enthusiasm of, it works for me.
Speaker B:It should work for you as well.
Speaker B:Let me help you see how we can make profit a priority for you.
Speaker B:All of a sudden, these start to resonate with the clients.
Speaker B:And if I may, I'd like to just point out that when I first started working with Profit First Professionals, one of the things that I focused on was my marketing.
Speaker B:We have a division of our company called Universal Business Builders.
Speaker B:And in Universal Business Builder, we work with business clients as basically CFO advisors.
Speaker B:And in that set, there are a number of services that we're trying to offer.
Speaker B:And of the marketing of the things that we spoke of doing for our clients, the thing that resonated most with them was this concept of increasing profits.
Speaker B:Every time that we spoke of the five services that we offered and mentioned the fourth, which is increasing profits, that perked their interest to say, okay, you can help me with that.
Speaker B:How would you actually help profit become a priority?
Speaker B:And it really caused of all the marketing messaging that we were saying, an interest in the services such that we could actually acquire clients.
Speaker B:So this whole principle of profit first isn't just a deliverable in the sense that it's a service we provide.
Speaker B:It's something that helps us clarify or simplify our marketing messaging to get the clients we would like.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker A:So making profit a priority, that's a really nice phrase to coin.
Speaker A:What we do, what we do for people, and.
Speaker A:And if it's standing out to accountants and bookkeepers, then surely the message then from them to filter down to their clients is.
Speaker A:Is going to do the same thing.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Sorry, Roger.
Speaker B:Well, I was just going to say one of the things that I know you're aware of is the fact that we want to just take these principles and apply them to ourselves as well as our clients.
Speaker B:We've got to practice what we preach.
Speaker A:In other words, that's the key message, isn't it?
Speaker A:I mean, you know, part of the certification process, as you know of being a profit first professional, is implementing your own business and the continual journey of these allocations and the rhythm of the money to make sure that you're still building that profit each quarter.
Speaker A:You're rewarding yourself.
Speaker A:In the ideal world, those profits that you reward yourself increase every quarter, which is what we support our members with and what I'm sure you support your members with within universal Accounting.
Speaker A:And it just builds this positivity, and I think that's the phrase that coins it best for me, is if you feel positive about your own business, because everything's the structures there, the framework's there to follow.
Speaker A:You can just filter that down to your clients so nicely.
Speaker A:But you're right, living and breathing profit first in our own business comes first and comes first and foremost.
Speaker A:Because how can you share the passion and the enthusiasm for profit first if you haven't felt the benefit of it yourself?
Speaker A:So I couldn't agree more.
Speaker A:Well, Roger, what was it that led you to profit first in the first place and to become a profit first professional?
Speaker B:Wonderful question.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:This goes back a few years when I met Mike and Ron.
Speaker B:And one of the things that I was struggling with is what I was mentioning earlier.
Speaker B:We were in our division, Universal Business Builder, trying to actually offer CFO and advisory services.
Speaker B:And from a marketing standpoint, the things that we were originally focusing on didn't resonate.
Speaker B:We were speaking of helping build the business as an asset.
Speaker B:We were talking about exit strategies.
Speaker B:And we really felt, as a cfo, those were some of the things that we would focus on.
Speaker B:Clearly, cash flow management was coming up as part of the conversation.
Speaker B:But what we found is when we started to actually embrace the profit first philosophy and bring that into our messaging, the things that we were saying, it really mattered the most.
Speaker B:And so over the years, we've kind of refined our marketing to mention basically five things, all of which we teach here as a school to help firms actually offer as services.
Speaker B:And the first was what's referred to engage and manifest.
Speaker B:It sounds somewhat odd, but I can explain it in a moment.
Speaker B:The second was understanding accounting.
Speaker B:The third was increasing revenue.
Speaker B:The fourth was improving profits.
Speaker B:And the fifth was building value.
Speaker B:And of all those things, engage and manifest, nobody Knew what that meant, but we could later explain it.
Speaker B:And understanding accounting, you know, who wants to talk about accounting and the financials?
Speaker B:Of course, that's what accountants do.
Speaker B:Increasing revenue.
Speaker B:Okay, now we're talking.
Speaker B:This is something that the client was like, okay, you can help me actually grow my top line?
Speaker B:Yes, we can.
Speaker B:Improving profits, that's powerful.
Speaker B:If we could actually find a way that we could help you keep more of what you make, would you be interested?
Speaker B:Of course.
Speaker B:And the last, building value, that asset component of the business, really struggled to make sense until we began working with the clients.
Speaker B:So of those five things that we worked on, two were the real things that kind of drew that client into wanting to have the conversation.
Speaker B:Well, what we found is, as we started to work with the clients, although they improved, profits was really one of the things that kind of resonated with them.
Speaker B:Engage and manifest really took off in the sense that that's where we.
Speaker B:Where we began with the clients because we could focus on their leadership and their purpose.
Speaker B:The second, understanding accounting.
Speaker B:Now we got into what we were passionate about because we could talk about their financial.
Speaker B:What are those key performance indicators that we could watch within the business?
Speaker B:Where were the numbers?
Speaker B:We were going to be focusing on clearly implementing some of the principles of profit first at that point, but then increasing revenue.
Speaker B:This is powerful.
Speaker B:Where are they spending their money and their time?
Speaker B:What is it that was providing for them?
Speaker B:That ROI that they needed to double down on and increase the revenues with, but improving profits now they felt like they were actually getting to keep the monies that they were making.
Speaker B:We were implementing strategies that felt like they were actually proactively making profit a priority.
Speaker B:That's where it all started to really resonate.
Speaker B:And then lastly, with building value, we were able to focus on those things that enabled them to build an asset with an exit strategy in mind.
Speaker B:All these coming together very nicely from a marketing point of view that as we explained these services, they started to get excited.
Speaker B:But I have to emphasize profit first as being part of that process or phase of improving profits is really where the people wanted to originally spend their time talking.
Speaker B:How can you help me there?
Speaker B:What can I do?
Speaker B:And when you can leverage this principle from the book profit first, it gave them something to look forward to and say, that's what I want to do.
Speaker B:Can you help me implement that in my business?
Speaker A:Yeah, that's absolutely amazing.
Speaker A:What a fantastic sequence of things that you can take your clients through.
Speaker A:And obviously, with putting profit first, it just makes it work so successfully.
Speaker A:And the fact that it stood out to the accountants as well.
Speaker A:It says all you need to say.
Speaker A:If it's standing out to accountants, it should be standing out to every entrepreneur and business owner out there, shouldn't it?
Speaker B:Oh, you would think so.
Speaker B:That's one of the things that's.
Speaker B:That's the hope.
Speaker B:And one of the things that I found is more often than not, it does.
Speaker B:And, you know, as accounting professionals, we go out marketing our services.
Speaker B:We're proud of the fact that we do the compliance work.
Speaker B:We're obviously taking care of their financials, helping them take care of their tax liabilities and obligations.
Speaker B:But at the end of the day, what we really need to be doing as accounting professionals is leveraging our experience, leveraging the skills we have to help our clients become more profitable.
Speaker B:I can't say it more succinct than.
Speaker A:That, and I don't think I need to repeat it, because I think that is the phrase that was definitely succinct.
Speaker A:So, Roger, I don't know how many accountants and bookkeepers you work with, but it feels like it's quite a high number.
Speaker A:And what are some of the successes that you find from universal accounting with the accountants and bookkeepers you work with?
Speaker B:Oh, excellent question.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:One of the things that I think accounting professionals struggle with is we're really good at the, let's say, the foundational principles of accounting.
Speaker B:We like to record transactions.
Speaker B:We enjoy producing financial reports.
Speaker B:We like that the balance sheet balances.
Speaker B:I mean, those are things that are skills we've acquired over the years.
Speaker B:We've become interested in offering our services, but really what the client wants to pay us for, really what they're interested in talking about is whether or not they're making money, growing their business, and building the asset that they have.
Speaker B:And so as we can become a little bit more effective as accounting professionals, communicating that, it really helps.
Speaker B:Well, profit first gives us something that we can wrap our arms around, get excited about, and kind of take to the world as a way of saying there's a simpler and a better way to run your business.
Speaker B:There's a way that you can make profit a priority.
Speaker B:And all of a sudden, what happens is accounting professional.
Speaker B:I honestly think we get excited again about the profession we have because we really see that what we're saying and doing with our clients is making a difference.
Speaker B:And that's one of the things that I think we can really start to get excited about, because we're not just going out there and offering this commodity as a service.
Speaker B:This something that we're doing to be compliant.
Speaker B:What we're doing is we're going out there to make a difference for our clients.
Speaker B:And so this profit first method, this message, if you will, really starts to really take on, I think, a prominence when you're out there comparing yourself as a service to the others that are competitors, other accounting firms, they're not harping on this, they're not focusing on this, they're more emphasizing the compliance, the tax.
Speaker B:Well, when you're able to come in and really kind of focus on the profit side of things, you sound different than the other accounting professionals.
Speaker B:And the place I'd like to end is this.
Speaker B:It's all about becoming more confident about offering advisory services.
Speaker B:And when you have a pathway to do that, one of the things that happens is you become a lot more clear in your messaging as to how you actually help and benefit your clients.
Speaker B:And that's what they want to hear, that's what they're going to pay for, that's what you're going to retain them doing.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:And you know, do you know what we've started doing with our members?
Speaker A:You might be interested to hear this.
Speaker A:I mean this might be something you already do.
Speaker A:We've got our members that have recently certified and we put them in what we call a post certification group.
Speaker A:And you know, but we allow longer standing members to come and join as well.
Speaker A:It's the kind of anyone who's in the membership can join these calls.
Speaker A:But over the last 10 to 12 weeks, we've asked one of the members to turn up with a profit assessment from a client.
Speaker A:Obviously we don't share who the client is or any details about the client particularly, but they share the profit assessment, the, the, you know, a little bit about the business, a little bit about how they've come up with the numbers they've come up with and then we all ask questions and give our thoughts.
Speaker A:So as a community, we're actually brainstorming a profit first profit assessment and then that member can then take away all this knowledge, reach out to their client and say, hey, I've been looking at your numbers and I'm seeing a few patterns here, or I'm seeing this, or I can see a couple of problems that actually I can help you solve.
Speaker A:Would you be open to a conversation?
Speaker A:And it's kind of a different way of, it's internal marketing towards your client base, but instead of just sending out generic emails saying, hey, I'm a certified profit first professional, I bet you want to find out what that is.
Speaker A:Come and Talk to me, which people ignore because, you know, if they don't know, they don't know.
Speaker A:But when you actually pick up the phone to a client and say, yeah, I've been looking at your numbers, I can see there's a couple of areas where there's a couple of pain points by the looks of it.
Speaker A:I think that's something that we could have a conversation around.
Speaker A:I could see a couple of areas where we could perhaps stream your money into a different place that could perhaps benefit you personally and could perhaps benefit the business long term by helping you build a more sustainable business.
Speaker A:Surely any business owner is going to want to talk to his accountant when they're having that kind of conversation with them as opposed to, I've done your year ender accounts, great, you made a profit.
Speaker A:Oh, here's your tax bill and here's my bill.
Speaker A:Thank you very much.
Speaker A:You know, it's a world of difference, isn't it?
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:And I'm going to add to what you're sharing and I love that you've got that group component because I think that's very helpful to get that other perspective and kind of think this through as a group of individuals.
Speaker B:But to add what you're sharing here, one of the things that I think is very powerful is we speak of what's referred to as benchmarking or doing a business assessment.
Speaker B:And as your accounting professionals may recall, benchmarking is where you're simply taking and more or less evaluating the business as it compares to their competition.
Speaker B:Here in the North America area, we use what's called NAICS codes.
Speaker B:And those codes are industry specific.
Speaker B:And by doing so we can now compare one client or business to their industry norms.
Speaker B:Well, you can take that and really do a lot.
Speaker B:But the point is, as it relates to Profit first is you're able to do a business assessment.
Speaker B:And using the formulas that Profit first provides as to how we should be allocating various things such as our operating expenses and profit allocations and so forth, you can come in and do an assessment more or less for free of what the client is currently doing to then offer them suggestions.
Speaker B:And the reason why I say for free is what I have found is the majority of the time the necessary numbers for you to actually do this assessment aren't there.
Speaker B:They don't exist.
Speaker B:Understand your clients are oftentimes not compliant with their accounting.
Speaker B:It's behind.
Speaker B:They don't have the numbers you would need to do the assessment.
Speaker B:And so by offering this, you basically open the door to the fact that in order for you to do the assessment, oftentimes the client has a conversation with you about catching up their accounting, and all of a sudden you're now getting a client to do perhaps some back work, or more importantly, monthly work as it relates to their financials.
Speaker B:Well, this is powerful because the conversation begins by you're offering a free business assessment, basically applying these very simple principles from profit first to their company generically.
Speaker B:They don't have the numbers you need to do the assessment and it turns quickly into a conversation about your services on an ongoing basis.
Speaker B:So it's a wonderful way of initially getting a client simply because in your networking, in your marketing, you can offer this confidently, knowing that the majority of clients won't be able to take advantage of it, and it will lead to a conversation about your services for you to do their books and accounting.
Speaker B:So I really feel that what you've described is a great marketing tool if used correctly.
Speaker A:Yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker A:We've probably only in a moment encouraged our members to do this with their current clients.
Speaker A:But actually, I think what I'm hearing is they could actually put this out and offer a free assessment to potential clients and then the conversation goes, as you've just explained.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I think that's another great opportunity.
Speaker A:I'll be sharing that within our membership, if you're okay with that.
Speaker B:Oh, certainly, yeah.
Speaker B:No, it works very effectively because you're right.
Speaker B:You begin with your current clients and you just do the initial assessment because they're only paying for the compliance work.
Speaker B:They're typically not yet paying for the CFO and advisory.
Speaker B:So you're able to do this assessment and give them a feel of what more you can do for them them if they were to pay you for the CFO and advisory service.
Speaker B:So it's a great little taster of what it is you have to offer at that level.
Speaker B:But once you've done it for all of your clients, why not now take it out to the other businesses that haven't been interested in your compliance work, that when you offer accounting services, they say, nah, I'm not interested.
Speaker B:But now you come in offering a taste of your advisory services.
Speaker B:They're intrigued, they're interested, but they're not current in their financials.
Speaker B:And so it causes that conversation to begin about, well, what can you do to get me caught up so I can get the assessment that you've offered.
Speaker B:Offered.
Speaker A:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:Because at the end of the day, we're trying to provide some value to them free of charge to actually demonstrate, you know, where there's areas that we can help them within their business, which of course leads to that conversation.
Speaker A:But you're kind of going a step, a step back in effect from that because nine times out of 10 people won't have the information ready.
Speaker A:So it gives them that in to, to create that conversation.
Speaker A:So I love, absolutely love that.
Speaker A:I think that's a great way to, to approach prospects and clients.
Speaker A:But, but I'm, I'm very much of the, you know, the profit first world and the profit first professional world is very much a given kind of way, isn't it?
Speaker A:It's sharing within your community, but also generally caring about your clients, businesses and wanting to help them succeed.
Speaker A:But of course that comes at a price.
Speaker A:You know, there's a value that we're creating for our clients.
Speaker A:And I think one of the things you said about the five things that you said you did with the accountants and bookkeepers you mentioned about increasing sales revenue.
Speaker A:And I was just wondering how much of that comes back to pricing and how much of that comes back to marketing, because obviously both go together, don't they?
Speaker A:And sometimes just by reflecting on our pricing and coming up with a new strategy, we can increase our sales revenue.
Speaker B:Oh yes, and there's a lot here, so I'll answer your question, but understand there's a lot to go into.
Speaker B:There's three components of this when we're talking about increasing the revenue.
Speaker B:First, I want to begin with marketing.
Speaker B:Where does the business acquire their clients?
Speaker B:What activities are they involved in either time or money wise to generate new business?
Speaker B:And so we talk about it from a marketing point of view and then we speak of, okay, now that you've got the marketing in place, you're finding your potential clients.
Speaker B:Let's take it to another level, which is sales.
Speaker B:What is it that you're doing within your organization to nurture those contacts and more importantly, position yourself as the expert.
Speaker B:And that's a very intentional, deliberate process that you're taking these new contacts through to actually then become clients.
Speaker B:Well, one of the things that's very important is once you've gone through this marketing exercise and you've identified all the efforts that the client has as it relates to finding potential clients, and you've now elaborated on, okay, what's that customer experience that they're going through to finally meet with you and be offered your product or service, we then need to talk about pricing.
Speaker B:What is it that you do to package or bundle your services so that it's intelligent?
Speaker B:What it is you do and what it is they pay for that.
Speaker B:And one of the things that becomes very apparent is in that messaging, we need actually choose how we price our services.
Speaker B:For accounting professionals, it's very simple.
Speaker B:We're either doing typically hourly billing, we're either doing flat rate, menu pricing, revenue pricing, or value pricing.
Speaker B:And those five services are very distinct.
Speaker B:And we have to know how do we actually now price our services in those one of five ways so that the client can make a decision.
Speaker B:And so when we're having this conversation about marketing, sales and pricing, we go pretty deep into all three of these things.
Speaker B:But to your point, point, one of the things that we're trying to do here is help the accounting professional understand what it is that the client perceives or experiences as they're making a decision about what it is we do.
Speaker B:And if we can now explain not so much the features, but rather the benefits of working with us, it starts to make a lot more sense why somebody would actually be interested in following us, exploring what their services could be with us, and most importantly, paying us for those services.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's really interesting.
Speaker A:I personally love the value pricing model.
Speaker A:It helped me a few years ago with my accountancy business.
Speaker A:I did sell that just over four years ago.
Speaker A:So, you know, it was a while ago.
Speaker A:But I found that to be really helpful for me because I was able to understand how many clients I needed because I knew what I was going to charge if I got people into the package I was targeting, which for me was the middle package package.
Speaker A:And I think it just helps you have clarity in your numbers, like Profit first does.
Speaker A:This is another way of having clarity on where you're going with your business.
Speaker A:And from a numbers perspective, we have a member here who's called Deb Halliday and she's a.
Speaker A:She had a bookkeeping practice and she took the value pricing model to another level or with a twist to it.
Speaker A:And I'm wondering if you've heard of this happening.
Speaker A:You may well have done.
Speaker A:But what she did, she decided that she would have these packages, but depending on where the client or the prospect was within their business, she would then tell them which package fitted them and so they would go into that particular package.
Speaker A:So, for instance, if their revenue was under 100k, they would go into the growth package, but they would need to be open to going over 100k and becoming VAT registered, which is sales tax over here, here.
Speaker A:And if they were against the sales tax issue and becoming registered, then she probably would say, you Know what?
Speaker A:It might not be the right fit for me because I'm only working with people that are looking to grow.
Speaker A:And if they were, so if they were then over the 100k, then they would go into this other package, I can't remember what she called it now.
Speaker A:And that was where she would say, this is where you're going.
Speaker A:If you want to work with me.
Speaker A:This is the package you're going into because this is where you fit.
Speaker A:If you increase your sales revenue by 100k, then the fees increase by this.
Speaker A:And so she had this set thing where she stringed the clients into each package and then she moved them up tiers within the package and then they moved up to the next level package once they'd achieved whatever that kind of limit was.
Speaker A:And I just thought it was a great way to develop on what we know as the traditional value pricing method.
Speaker A:So I just like to share that with you.
Speaker A:I wonder if you've heard of anyone else doing that kind of thing.
Speaker B:I haven't heard of someone doing anything specific like that, but I love it and I'm going to share with you why I like it.
Speaker B:What's happening is she's taking and mirroring the menu pricing with the revenue pricing model and she's combining the two to actually then say to the client, here's where you're going to be.
Speaker B:And the reason why it resonates with me so much and I like it, is because it's similar to something that we experienced.
Speaker B:One of the things that I really kind of espouse, and it's something that I think is very important for my potential clients clients, is for them to understand this principle that when working with us, we're helping them build a independent, self sustaining living entity as a business that's independent of the business owner.
Speaker B:In other words, the business owner isn't going to be involved with the day to day operations of the business.
Speaker B:And when I explain that to the client, they start to hear, that's what I'd like.
Speaker B:I'd like an asset that I'm not involved in day to day so that I can actually now step away from the operations and go on a vacation.
Speaker B:I can step away from the operations and work on the business rather than simply in it day to day.
Speaker B:They start to get intrigued by the fact that I'm a business owner.
Speaker B:I'm not doing a job that I was hired to do by myself.
Speaker B:And so all these things start to resonate.
Speaker B:Well, what you're describing in that pricing model is the fact that the client has to be willing to go on this journey from level one to level two and so forth.
Speaker B:Because if they're not willing to grow, why are they working with us?
Speaker B:And that's one of the things that we tried to emphasize in our marketing is we work with clients that are in a growth mindset where the business owner wants to remove themselves from the day to day operations and bring build that self sustaining business that I was describing.
Speaker B:Well, all of a sudden that pricing model that you just described that she had implemented or created resonates because that business owner is saying, I don't want to be on tier one, I want to be on tier two and tier three, I want to move up this tier simply because I want to grow my business.
Speaker B:And so these things start to really appeal to the client to say I want to work on my company and grow.
Speaker B:Throw it.
Speaker B:So what you're describing to me is motivational, it's encouraging, it's something that says I can strive for something more.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker A:And again, it's that it's that positive message that we talk about, isn't it?
Speaker A:You know, we're going to help you achieve this.
Speaker A:If you follow what we guide you with, we will help you achieve and move up that ladder.
Speaker A:And if you're moving up that ladder with us, then you're achieving success and we're achieving success with you.
Speaker A:And therefore all, we're all making the world a better place to live in.
Speaker A:And that's what we want, isn't it?
Speaker A:We want to make people happy and, and help them reach and achieve their dreams.
Speaker A:A lot of people set out with a business with a dream in mind and quite often the dream seems a distant, a long distance away, doesn't it?
Speaker A:But actually Profit first handled with the right people.
Speaker A:Profit first professionals helping the clients and they really can have, they've got the tools to guide people towards those dreams and that they can achieve things that they never thought was possible.
Speaker A:Roger, it's been fantastic chatting with you.
Speaker A:I could continue chatting with you all day to be perfectly honest, but, but I'm conscious of time and is there any particular Profit first tip that you could share with us?
Speaker A:I'm putting you on the spot a little bit, I know.
Speaker A:So is there anything you could share with us specifically around Profit first?
Speaker A:Anybody?
Speaker B:Yeah, there's three things I'm going to say is first of all, embrace it as something that you can implement in your own business.
Speaker B:I think that's very important that you apply these principles so that you can be Profitable.
Speaker B:The second thing I would say is in your marketing, make sure that you're actually emphasizing that you do something different than just the compliance work and so forth, that you literally are intending to work with them on the thing that matters most, which is the profit.
Speaker B:And so if in your marketing you can emphasize that a little bit more, I think that'll be something that will resonate with your potential customers.
Speaker B:But then the third thing I'd like to really focus on is this emotional thing that you were just speaking of.
Speaker B:At the end of the day, what we're looking for is helping our clients achieve the real dream that they have at the end.
Speaker B:They want not just freedom, but profit.
Speaker B:So many of our clients are working very hard to get what they do, but they're going in essence, kind of like paycheck to paycheck.
Speaker B:They're just going from month to month, cash flow wise, just paying the bills and they don't have much to show for it in the end.
Speaker B:And, and really it can cause for a burnout of the client where they're just saying, I'm working so hard and I'm not experiencing the profit as I would expect.
Speaker B:But when you actually move from compliance work into profitability, you're going to see that your clients are actually achieving what they set out to accomplish originally.
Speaker B:Profit.
Speaker B:They wanted to make money.
Speaker B:They wanted to actually find that what they did as a product or service, not only service their clients, but more importantly, help them actually build essentially a retirement for themselves, could pay for their client's education, could actually afford them the ability to live as they hoped.
Speaker B:All of a sudden, the thing that's the secret for that is the profitability of the business.
Speaker B:And so for us to focus on that and make it a priority, I think is one of the things that we need to prioritize in the services that we're offering.
Speaker B:To merely give our clients the financial reports that they paid us for isn't enough.
Speaker B:It's now taking that information that the client is more or less getting from us and applying it in an educated way, way to make their business more profitable.
Speaker B:So for us at PROFIT or Universal Accounting Center, Profit first is a key component of one of those services.
Speaker B:So if I could, I'd like to just invite your listeners, if you'd like to learn more, to reach out to us at LinkedIn and connect with me, and I'd be happy to kind of share with you what it is that we found to be effective for us as we've been applying these principles with our clients.
Speaker B:And what it is you can do to more importantly become for your clients that profit first action expert.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Please do reach out to Roger Connect on LinkedIn.
Speaker A:I also would say if, if you, if you'll forgive me for this, but you gave me a couple of links before and I, I've just put them one up on the screen on YouTube.
Speaker A:So YouTube.com user for UAC training, I would really encourage you to look at some of the videos of Roger and his team team discussing all of the areas they can support you with.
Speaker A:I think that's going to help the accountants and bookkeepers listening on this call learn lots of really good tips.
Speaker A:And also if you go to the website universalaccounting.com free resources, you'll be able to download some free resources that I'm sure are going to help you tremendously.
Speaker A:So I really recommend you take a look at this because at the end of the day, Proper First Professionals is world worldwide.
Speaker A:It's a global, global network of accountants and bookkeepers.
Speaker A:And if we can help you find support in any area of the world, that's our job is complete.
Speaker A:Because the more support we can get, the more learning we can, we can find, take on board and then take action on, the better the world's going to be and the easier we can all eradicate entrepreneur poverty.
Speaker A:I nearly said it.
Speaker A:I got a bit tongue tied there, Roger, but never mind.
Speaker B:No, you're personally fine.
Speaker B:And what you just shared there, let me just kind of emphasize those free resources are in fact free.
Speaker B:And more importantly, they are there for you as you're working on your business.
Speaker B:These are courses, ebooks, they are white papers, things that you can actually utilize to help you work on your business.
Speaker B:And so I invite you to take advantage of those.
Speaker B:One of which I would encourage you to get, which is a free ebook that's called you'd Strategic Accountant.
Speaker B:It's where we talk of many of these principles and then another book called you'd Profit and Growth Expert.
Speaker B:It's where we speak of exactly this idea of working with our clients in a CFO and advisory capacity, implementing among a number of things, the profit first philosophy.
Speaker B:And then the last thing I'd like to encourage you to do is take advantage of what's called the accountrepreneur's challenge.
Speaker B:It's a challenge that I'm issuing to you as an accounting professional to actually work on your business.
Speaker B:It's there in the challenge that we focus on things that, that are both personal as it relates to you and being a leader and actually improving your skill sets.
Speaker B:And then lastly, it's that idea of becoming a professional.
Speaker B:What is it that you can do to take your business to that next level?
Speaker B:So I invite you to take part in the accountrepreneur's challenge and with that, really make this the best year ever.
Speaker A:Absolutely amazing.
Speaker A:And just to remind everyone, if you're listening rather than watching it on the screen, that's universalaccounting.com/free resources.
Speaker A:And you'll better download everything that Roger's just explained to you.
Speaker A:So definitely do that.
Speaker A:What have you got to lose is free resources and they're going to help you.
Speaker A:And also watch, watch Roger on YouTube and also hook up with Roger on LinkedIn because Roger will always connect with you if you, if you send the connection request.
Speaker A:So, Roger, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker A:I really appreciate you spending some time with me today and for sharing all of your knowledge and wisdom to help the accountants and bookkeepers of the world.
Speaker B:Tim, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker B:Thank you for the time.
Speaker B:I enjoyed the conversation.
Speaker B:And always remember this, if it's about accounting, it is universal.
Speaker A:Thank you for joining us on our podcast today.
Speaker A:Profit first beyond the book was brought to you by the profit First Professionals UK & Ireland team team.
Speaker A:If you'd like to find out more about Profit first or becoming a Profit first professional, head to our website, profitfirstuk.co uk.
